Forgotten Soldiers

I would have to say no about being unbanned, us knowing you have the cheats and are capable of using again would result in another ban anyway and our server rules state no cheating whatsoever. Ban stays.

I got banned for them last time by the anti cheat. I can screenshare if you have skype. It was an addon and unsubscirbed from it.

PLEASE. I went through all this trouble to make this apeal. I promise it won't happen again!!!

Winner is the head admin. Thank you for taking the time to make an appeal. In the future be wiser. Cheating is a shortcut and shortcuts get you nowhere in life. #ByeFelicia

"Let em learn on their own"
Let this be your lesson. At least you feel bad about it and being honest, but it can not be forgiven here.

Our clan does not approve any form of cheating whatsoever as said before.

And I personally noticed your second account, so an IP ban is around the corner, just letting you know.

Again thanks for going through all the trouble, but you have to learn somewhere. Mistakes help us learn, if you were curios enough to try cheats, now you know the consequences. 

Second account?? Can you tell me the name? lol I don't have 2 accounts or don't use them.

I'm tired of this! If i am ever nice and truthful bad s**t happens. When I lie, I always get my way. I wish there was such thing as karma!

I should have lied.

All I was using was this https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=186936307 I just wanted to see if it worked and I was never gonna actually cheat. Well just close the thread I know I am banned

Don't blame yourself, just don't do it again.

Again, thanks for being honest, things wont always go your way, but in the long run if you're honest, it's a better outcome.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/JMZ360
I had to go through something similar, just letting you know I've been there.
Cheating is no fun man, even if you mess around in single player games, it defeats the purpose of the game.
We don't hate you, we're just disappointed.

It was nice meeting you though. Please don't go to the dark side and start lying about everything, lies will only give you a temporary excitement but the guilt of that will just keep adding up. Just do your best in doing things right! But you have to no that sometimes in life there is no do-overs, this day is just a small reminder of that.

Thanks again for the 3rd time for being honest ^_^, being honest is one of the hardest things to achieve in front of strangers.

as said, honestly is the best policy.  still gotta reap the consequences, but at least your integrity is there. 

a question I have? if so against cheating as a clan? then why allow VAC bans?  after all, a VAC ban does in fact mean you used some form of cheat.  the system may not be the best at catching cheaters, but those it does catch, its spot on. 

VAC has been known to be extremely unreliable everywhere, for those who investigate it enough will know.

Just in case you were wondering, my case is nothing special. I wasn't completely sure of why I was banned for a year, I first assumed for changing some files in my config for the audio of the game, then macros. I finally came to the conclusion that it was at the time where I used a 3rd party software to mess around with my FOV, but it turned out that this counted as cheating in competitive play. This went on for 2 weeks, I didn't know it was wrong to do this, but I quickly learned from that, although was confused at what happened. After I figured out what happened, I accepted it, but what I did find unfair is what VAC considers "Cheats" is not shown.

VAC is just simply a program that reads your RAM for black listed lines of code, or suspicious new ones, and rumored to also look through your web history. Point is, it's automated, so it will always be far from perfect. And Valve's policy is never to unban anyone with a false positive. Unlike other more open programs, VAC is just simply too hidden, you get no REAL reason why you were banned.

Now with the information provided, back to your original question. VAC is NOT allowed, although I was in a short window where it was allowed because VAC is simply just too secretive. Our clan like to have the "proven until guilty" method around, and for a short period, VAC banned players were allowed.

But this came with certain problems later on, so the rule was put in place.

Also I was persistent for half a year and work to get into the clan, that I now consider my family. That might be a factor. 

Again, even though I did technically cheat, it wasn't with any bad intentions, it was just a mistake that I had to go through. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have know what cheats are or look like. So I'm glad I got to go through that, even if it did stain my reputation a little bit, I wear that VAC ban with pride. It's a scar, and plan to not keep it hidden.

Quote from: cad80_99 on January 11, 2017, 10:25:35 PM
a question I have? if so against cheating as a clan? then why allow VAC bans?  after all, a VAC ban does in fact mean you used some form of cheat.  the system may not be the best at catching cheaters, but those it does catch, its spot on.

First of all I want to say that I respect and understand your concerns. This is a very good question and hopefully you will agree that I have given you a very good answer. Second of all I believe JMZ about him using a third party Field of View Changer. As you know, changing your FOV in CoD series is not considered a cheat as long as the FOV parameters are within 65 and 80, which can be changed in the the config file or via the console. Also JMZ has been a part of our community long enough and has proven to be truthful with integrity and I'm honored that he is here. We just don't get any information when we look at his VAC ban or any others for that matter, there is no evidence there. VAC doesn't explain anything to us as a community as to what happened on the day he was banned, or when the ban was triggered, or what IP address it originated from. From my understanding VAC bans are usually placed  after the violation happened on the date in the ban report. This is why we don't use VAC's system as a clan membership tool:

http://www.vacbanned.com/view/detail/id/76561198071419440

This is all we get and must take VAC's word for it if used as a clan membership tool:

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7849-Radz-6869

And we know there are false positives as with any anticheat system. Since VAC doesn't provide any evidence and does not have a clear appeal system it can easily turn into an argument and a guessing game with a lot of precious time wasted for us as a community if we use it as a clan membership tool. I'm not going to provide any specific links but you can see where the rabbit hole leads to on your own if you're interested:

https://www.google.com/#q=VAC+ban+false+positives


As a long time FPS gamer I'm used to using an evidence system such as PunkBuster with credible third party anticheat communities and very used to using this to determine what really happened when a player is allegedly banned for cheating.  It is very important for me to be 100% sure that the player in question actually cheated or is actually innocent.  PunkBuster's anticheat tools allows clans and third party anticheat communities to work together as a team in the fight against cheating.  This information is available to us as a community in detail. For example,  here is a list of PunkBuster Violation Numbers listed on an extremely credible third party anticheat site:

https://www.pbbans.com/info-center-pbviols.html

Here is an example of the information available to us when a player is banned for cheating using PunkBuster's anticheat tools at a third party anticheat site:

https://www.pbbans.com/mbi-view-ban-323599.html

With PunkBuster we actually know what they consider to be a cheat and we know what type of cheat was used, we know the PunkBuster GUID as well as the IP address location where the violation originated from.
I want to emphasize that I'm not bashing VAC's system, it is useful, has it's place and am very grateful that it exists.  I just don't think VAC is very useful as a clan membership tool. PunkBuster in unison with a credible third party anticheat community system is. I support any anticheat system that bans players that use cheats. But VAC doesn't provide us with any information or evidence as to what exactly happened, nothing. He cheated, he is banned and that's the end of it.  If we want to use VAC's system as measurement of a player's guilt we must take VAC's word for it and I just don't believe in doing this when determining if clan member cheated or not. The last thing I ever want to do is risk kicking out an innocent member or risk persecuting an innocent member based on shaky evidence or in the case of VAC, no evidence at all. I agree with many that it is better to let a cheater go free than to keep an innocent player banned if there is any doubt that a player used hacks to cheat. This is exactly why we don't use VAC as a clan membership tool. On the other hand we are strict and will remove any member from the clan if they end up on the PBBans master ban index and have done so in the past.

https://www.pbbans.com/master-ban-index.html

Why? Because we know what type of hack was used, when it was used, what server it was used on, have a record of the player's PunkBuster GUID and have an IP address record.  And lets not mention that players have the right to appeal their bans with PunkBuster and credible third party anticheat communities that use PunkBuster anticheat tools.  We know that Steam accounts, Origin accounts and specific game accounts get hijacked all the time and are later used to cheat and then get VAC or PunkBuster banned. And there is no way to prove where the IP address violation originated from with a VAC ban. To the contrary, with PunkBuster in unison with other clans and third party anticheat tools we can find out if one of our clan member's account was hacked and what IP address was used when the cheat violation was triggered.

This third party anticheat community that uses PunkBuster also uses the demo system and they are extremely good at using it. Without them I don't think I would have been able to learn how to use the demo system as effectively as we do.  Our clan owes them a great deal of gratitude for this in my opinion and am able to use it as a clan membership tool. In the two examples below I personally recorded both demos and submitted them for anyone to see on our CoD4 server. All you need to do is click under Other Evidence and the demos are still available as a link to the public:

https://www.pbbans.com/mbi-view-ban-237137.html
https://www.pbbans.com/mbi-view-ban-235146.html

As far as I know this is not the case with CS:GO's Overwatch demo system. The demos are not available to the public when players are banned by Overwatch so we would have to take their demo reviewers word for it to use as a clan membership tool. I would take a note of it, but  would not use it as a clan membership tool unless I could personally review the demos on my own:

http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/overwatch/


For the many reasons stated we cannot use VAC or Overwatch as a measurement tool to determine if a player can be trusted into our clan even though we no longer allow new applicants into the clan with prior VAC bans or Overwatch bans. We learned later that it is just not worth it in case the applicant actually cheated. We had a past member slip through the cracks and was later able to gather evidence in a conclusive demo that this member was in fact a cheater.  This cheating member received his first known VAC ban after becoming a member and learned later that he had lied to us saying that he didn't cheat.  Again, since VAC doesn't provide any evidence we decided to give him the benefit of the doubt as anyone should when there is no evidence. This problem would have been solved more easily if it had been a PunkBuster ban recorded by a credible third party anticheat community.
Again, VAC really doesn't help me as a clan leader because the VAC ban list doesn't show me any evidence information as to why the player in question was banned or what was detected or where the IP originated from. We just don't know what VAC considers to be a cheat or what cheat was used.  Of course they have their reasons for this and I respect that but still isn't very helpful to me as a clan leader when using it as a clan membership tool.  Again, another reason is that you cannot appeal a VAC ban according to this page, but others  state to the contrary. Does VAC review ban appeals? Maybe, maybe not:

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7849-Radz-6869

I can go on and on and could spend a bunch of time explaining myself better in full detail, but I just don't have the time to write up an essay on the subject. There is plenty of information on the web if you want to further research what I'm trying explain here. The arguments are out there. Both VAC and PunkBuster are great anticheat tools, but PunkBuster in unison with credible anticheat communities and other clans is  the right choice when using it as a clan membership tool in my opinion:

https://www.google.com/#q=Punkbuster+VS+VAC

cad80_99, I hope I have answered your questions and concerns in a positive manner.  If you have any more questions or concerns please feel free  to ask and will answer them as best as I can.

Quote from: UnderEstimateMe on January 11, 2017, 09:24:26 PM
I'm tired of this! If i am ever nice and truthful bad s**t happens. When I lie, I always get my way. I wish there was such thing as karma!

UnderEstimateMe, after reading this I hope you now understand why your ban will not be lifted.  We spend countless hours debating this subject and countless hours keeping our clan and servers cheat free.  I have lost a lot of sleep thanks to players like you that decide to test out their cheats.  We just don't have the time to lift your ban, and wouldn't lift it if we did. Even if you lied to us it wouldn't work because we already have conclusive evidence that you in fact had cheats installed on your computer thanks to !cake Anti-Cheat:

https://scriptfodder.com/scripts/view/460

There are plenty of other servers that you can still play on. Just stay honest  and don't ever cheat again. Good luck to you.

My point is. When I lie people unban me. (This is an example. This is the first time I got banned) When I tell the truth, Usually bad stuff happens.


I understand why I am staying banned but can you at least not make it permanent?

Quote from: UnderEstimateMe on January 12, 2017, 06:39:24 AM
My point is. When I lie people unban me. (This is an example. This is the first time I got banned) When I tell the truth, Usually bad stuff happens.


I understand why I am staying banned but can you at least not make it permanent?

I normally stay out of these discussions.....not this time.  Forgotten Soldiers isn't like most clans, perm bans are done here by undeniable proof, not hearsay or any other assumption.  I can also guarantee lying would NOT have gotten you unbanned.  While perm bans are handed out due to undeniable proof, bans are also never lifted because someone comes on the forum and says, "Nuh uhhh, I never cheat or use hacks" or "You people just wanna ban someone that's better than you".  If there is proof, you get banned.  If there's no proof, you don't get banned in the first place.


Never.


Read through the banned section and you'll see that Goodshot spends a lot of time researching the matter every time someone tries to deny cheating.  Two things that are not, and never have been tolerated in this clan, is cheating and racism.  Accusing someone of cheating without proof comes in a close second.


Although your ban will not be lifted on FS servers, I hope that you'll use this as a learning experience, but I'm fairly certain you won't.  Why?  You, yourself, stated:

QuoteWhen I lie people unban me. (This is an example. This is the first time I got banned) When I tell the truth, Usually bad stuff happens

That tells me that you've gone through this process before so your argument of it being the first time using a cheat doesn't really hold water.  Therefore, I have little doubt you'll move on to another server and use it again.


Best of luck